Your Overall Thoughts on Smash 4 (Impressions)

[DaKid]

Remember when Luigi used his moves in games? Yeah, I didn't think so. But you don't see anyone complaining.

That's because they totally differentiated him from Mario in a fashion that fit's Luigi. His Fair is different, his jump is different, his Dtilt is different, his Utilt is different, he moves differently, he plays differently. They all fit Luigi's awkward, cowardly personality.

the only special move Luigi does use that he doesn't use in the games is the missile thing which is why I don't complain about it

Ganon on the other hand is terrible representation in comparison and as such he definitely should be changed imo

When did Luigi ever use the Luigi Tornado in a game?

Super Mario World, SM64DS, SM3DW.

Ness' moveset doesn't represent him well at all and no one is complaining about him.

Just because Ness didn't use those moves, doesn't mean he's not represented well. His specials came from his friends who are you know, right next to him, in the same game.

Ganondorf is a clone of Captain Falcon who are from 2 different series. The other clones at least copied characters from the same series. Not to mention Captain Falcon's move set was completely made up in the first place.

Ganondorf uses a move very similar to Warlock Punch when you fight him in Ocarina and he uses the flame choke, or at least a variation of it in a cutscene from Twilight Princess. He also used kicks in Twilight Princess.

You're stretching to try to prove something that isn't true at all. Ganondorf is not represented an inkling correctly. Ganondorf uses swords, projectile magical attacks, possession, and summoning. Never once in a boss fight does Ganondorf come at Link with his bare fists punching and kicking.

 

[GalacticPetey]

His attacks have electric and darkness effects to them. Doesn't that constitute as magic?

Here's a post from Reddit that sums up Ganondorf.

But, I really like Ganon the way he is now. He's such a disrespectful character.
People say that he is a re-skinned Falcon and I can see that. But he's got so much power that I don't feel the comparison. His aerials are downright painful. Sure, Falcon has the Knee but Ganon has that kind of power on all of his aerials. You have to play Ganon with patience and spacing. What he lacks in speed he makes for in his punish game.
Ganon's parallel in Street Fighter is Zangeif. Zangief has no projectiles, a massive hitbox, and slow movement speed. Sound familiar? In a game dominated by spacing and projectile use, Zangief has solidified his place in the game as a punish character. Smash Bros does not have a character like that other than Ganon. Removing such an integral fighting style from Smash Bros would leave the roster rather boring, don't you think?
People keep crying for buffs for SSBPM Ganon but he doesn't need them. His Neutral-B is slow but it doesn't matter. You aren't supposed to be able to hit that move. The move is used to point out how stupid your opponent is for getting hit by it. Giving him some sort of reflector option or a sword move-set is unwarranted and completely unnecessary. He's got buffs he needs.
I feel that if he was given a sword, he would lose that meaty raw... power that he has. He would turn into Ike, a powerful character with a sword. It would give him range, but he would lose the in-your-face, gut-twisting, punish game that he has.

And Ganondorf has only used a sword in two games.

 

[DaKid]

I specifically said projectile magic. Not magic where he has to physically touch you by punching and kicking. You can keep tying to spin it in your favor but the fact of the matter is, Ganondorf and his beast form Ganon are known for using weapons. Whether it be swords or a trident. It's pretty sad when a third-party company can give Ganondorf a moveset and stay true to him. And that's Hyrule Warriors, a perfect example.

 

[GalacticPetey]

I get that the moveset doesn't represent Zelda very accurately but there's no need to screw over Ganondorf mains who have been using that moveset for 13 plus years. You can give him a new moveset, but at least give the old moveset to another character like Black Shadow.

Or you can keep Ganondorf the way he is and make Pig Ganon a playable character to keep Zelda fans happy.

 

[DaKid]

I get that the moveset doesn't represent Zelda very accurately but there's no need to screw over Ganondorf mains who have been using that moveset for 13 plus years. You can give him a new moveset, but at least give the old moveset to another character like Black Shadow.

Or you can keep Ganondorf the way he is and make Pig Ganon a playable character to keep Zelda fans happy.

You make it seem like Ganondorf mains who like him just for his moveset and nothing more are the majority here when that's not the case at all. You don't care Zelda fans are getting screwed over with an unfaithful misrepresentation moveset for a character they adore. We don't need two versions of a character, just do the damn character right.

 

[GalacticPetey]

I'm actually a massive Zelda fan and Ganondorf is one of my favorite Nintendo villains. I have some good friends who love current Ganondorf in Smash and would agents see him go. That's why I support the Black Shadow idea. He gets Dorf's old move set (minus flame choke because that's unique to Ganondorf) and Ganondorf gets a new one.

For a unique Ganondof, give him an energy ball for neutral b, keep flame choke side b, give him a teleportation up b, and that downward slam from Ocarina as his down b. Sword can be used for some standard moves. Ganondorf should still keep some kick moves because he actually uses them in Twilight Princess.

 

[DaKid]

Here another thing that pisses me off..

Why certain characters don't have human-sounding voices

- Bowser, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong and Dedede have had human-sounding voices in cartoons
- Sakurai says animal sounds make more sense

Animal sounds.... make more sense than using their voice actors.

This doesn't even make sense for DK or Diddy as DK does make some animal sounds in his original, fitting voice... same with Diddy. Their voices add more personality to them. Kenny James not voicing Bowser is just *bleep*ing stupid. They're not even human sounding. Oh my God sometimes I just want to drop kick this guy for his beyond stupid logic , reasons, and decision making. Sometimes it's like he's an *bleep*ing idiot.. I mean, I love Sakurai and his games but holy *bleep* man.

 

[Baby Mario Bloops]

> Complaining about non-human sounding voices.
> All characters listed are not even human.
> Human voices add more personality.

DaKid please. Obviously you never heard the T Rex roar in Jurassic Park. I don't mind that. It's such a minor detail that you're blowing up for no reason. Does it affect the gameplay? No. Does it affect how good a character will be? No.

 

[Magikrazy]

I'm gonna get the demo tomorrow.

 

[DaKid]

> Complaining about non-human sounding voices.
> All characters listed are not even human.
> Human voices add more personality.

DaKid please. Obviously you never heard the T Rex roar in Jurassic Park. I don't mind that. It's such a minor detail that you're blowing up for no reason. Does it affect the gameplay? No. Does it affect how good a character will be? No.

It's highly annoying. Yes. And the excuse for not having them is bogus. It in a way strips a character of some of their personality. It's like if Luigi still had his higher pitched Mario voice from N64 and Melee. Now tell me that wouldn't be annoying.

 

[Magikrazy]

dude just mute it or something if it annoys you that much

 

[DaKid]

It's not that it annoys me so much, it's mostly his reason for it that annoys me. The annoyance of their voices are just a sigh.

 

[Baby Mario Bloops]

It's not that it annoys me so much, it's mostly his reason for it that annoys me. The annoyance of their voices are just a sigh.

"omg, I hate how he drew that circle. Not because it's a circle, but the way he did it."

This is such a minor criticism that you really should take with a grain of salt. You're acting like this is some mistake Sakurai made.

And animal sound effects give it more authentic feel for characters that AREN'T EVEN HUMAN! I mean, let's just have bowser talk in Smash Bros.! Totally gives them character, just like how he was in the SMB Super Show. While we are at it, we should give Link and Zelda voice acting too so we can hear excuse me princess whenever Link taunts.

Human voice acting is not always needed, and does not always give the character more personality. The last time I remember, Koopas are based on Turtles, Dedede is based on a Penguin, DK and Diddy are Ape and Monkey. Sakurai forbid they have voices that match their species.

 

[DaKid]

You're being completely unreasonable and are immaturely over exaggerating my complaint. I see no need to continue the conversation if you're going to keep on acting like a jerk about it.

I have a valid complaint. That last bit you posted is extremely ignorant and I shouldn't even have to explain why.

 

[Nysic]

HOW is he acting like a jerk? HOW is he being ignorant? He's making a very valid point in that giving non-human characters human voices wouldn't make anything better.

 

[Mcmadness]

HOW is he acting like a jerk? HOW is he being ignorant? He's making a very valid point in that giving non-human characters human voices wouldn't make anything better.

The point is that they should sound like how they actually fucking sound like in their respective games. Sound design is just as important as any other part of the game and its perfectly open to being criticised. And I'm going to do just that.

Bowser's voice sucks and sounds nothing like him

Donkey Kong's voice sucks and sounds nothing like him

Diddy's voice sucks and sounds nothing like him.

Being animals isn't a fucking excuse either, just look at Fox, Falco, Wolf or Pikachu.

 

[DaKid]

HOW is he acting like a jerk? HOW is he being ignorant? He's making a very valid point in that giving non-human characters human voices wouldn't make anything better.

His or Her's exaggeration of my complaint and doing it mockingly, and this...

. The last time I remember, Koopas are based on Turtles, Dedede is based on a Penguin, DK and Diddy are Ape and Monkey. Sakurai forbid they have voices that match their species.

Just because they're based on animals doesn't mean they should sound like an real life animal or do. Because they don't. Koopas don't sound like turtles, DEDEDE doesn't sound like a real penguin, DK and Diddy don't sound like a ferocious ape at the zoo (in DK's case) or monkey throwing *bleep* at viewers.

They have a very distinct and personality filled voice. They're not beastly animals. Bowser's voice is even more glaring because Bowser Jr. sounds like Bowser Jr.. Not some little mini Bowser. Kenny James has a lot of range with Bowser, and knowing he's not being used for a beyond stupid reason is depressing, and highly annoying. Bowser's voice is unique and it adds a hell of a lot more character to him than those ghastly snarls, growls, and roars he does in Smash with SFX.

This is more than a valid criticism.

 

[Magikrazy]

Honestly, I think Diddy sounds better with his Smash voice.

 

[Lumastar]

The Kongs and Dedede are fine. Bowser should have Kenny, however.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

I don't Bowser's voice either. It's not Bowser enough, it's just personality-less monster noises. DK's voice probably could do a bit better, like some clips from DKCR (though it wasn't out then), but it isn't as bad.

Or in my opinion anyway.

Not that these things bother me too much. It's things like Bowser incredibly slow movement that annoys me.

 

[Ray Trace]

HOW is he acting like a jerk? HOW is he being ignorant? He's making a very valid point in that giving non-human characters human voices wouldn't make anything better.

The point is that they should sound like how they actually *bleep*ing sound like in their respective games. Sound design is just as important as any other part of the game and its perfectly open to being criticised. And I'm going to do just that.

Bowser's voice sucks and sounds nothing like him

Donkey Kong's voice sucks and sounds nothing like him

Diddy's voice sucks and sounds nothing like him.

Being animals isn't a *bleep*ing excuse either, just look at Fox, Falco, Wolf or Pikachu.

I 100% agree with DaKid and Mcmadness here

Seriously, isn't the point of Smash is to be a ----ing crossover with the series, not to be a ----ing interpretation of a certain series? If you're gonna do a crossover, shouldn't it be a wise idea to stick as closely as possible to the source material instead of pulling crap out of your ass like what happened in Smash games? If you're going to add someone like Diddy in the game, you should give them the voice what they normally sound like because they're supposed to represent their base franchise, in which they SHOULD receive their base voice from said base franchise. I wouldn't complain if Diddy had a voice like that in the games, but he doesn't. He's voice acted.

If the other series ALL get representative voices (and yes, I'm certain ALL the others do EXCEPT for Mario), why is it so ----ing hard to give those said characters their ----ing correct voice?

"omg, I hate how he drew that circle. Not because it's a circle, but the way he did it."

This is such a minor criticism that you really should take with a grain of salt. You're acting like this is some mistake Sakurai made.

And animal sound effects give it more authentic feel for characters that AREN'T EVEN HUMAN! I mean, let's just have bowser talk in Smash Bros.! Totally gives them character, just like how he was in the SMB Super Show. While we are at it, we should give Link and Zelda voice acting too so we can hear excuse me princess whenever Link taunts.

Human voice acting is not always needed, and does not always give the character more personality. The last time I remember, Koopas are based on Turtles, Dedede is based on a Penguin, DK and Diddy are Ape and Monkey. Sakurai forbid they have voices that match their species.

It would be fine if they're actually those animals based realistically off realistic animals and if they actually sounded like that. They're not. They're cartoon characters from a cartoon series that have a very distinct voice. It's a valid complaint about a misrepresented game in a game where it's SUPPOSED to emphasize the different game series fighting each other. You mess that small detail up, it looks and sounds completely like *bleep*.

This crap IS a mistake that Sakurai made, and what's even worse is that he's too ---ing lazy to give the Mario reps proper representation by starting with the smaller details and getting their godforsaken voice correct.

 

[Baby Mario Bloops]

You're being completely unreasonable and are immaturely over exaggerating my complaint. I see no need to continue the conversation if you're going to keep on acting like a jerk about it.

I have a valid complaint. That last bit you posted is extremely ignorant and I shouldn't even have to explain why.

Whoa, easy there tiger. There's a thing that is called a "debate". I'm sorry that I don't agree with your opinion, but trying to say that my point is not valid at all and that my post is "extremely ignorant" even though I've played like every game from the DK series, Mario series, and some of the Kirby games, is rude, ignorant, and immature. I do not see how I was acting like a jerk. I was simply trying to defend Sakurai's decision for using animal voicing instead of human voicing. If you can't handle a little disagreement, then don't call others unreasonable.

Just because they're based on animals doesn't mean they should sound like an real life animal or do. Because they don't. Koopas don't sound like turtles, DEDEDE doesn't sound like a real penguin, DK and Diddy don't sound like a ferocious ape at the zoo (in DK's case) or monkey throwing *bleep* at viewers.

They have a very distinct and personality filled voice. They're not beastly animals. Bowser's voice is even more glaring because Bowser Jr. sounds like Bowser Jr.. Not some little mini Bowser. Kenny James has a lot of range with Bowser, and knowing he's not being used for a beyond stupid reason is depressing, and highly annoying. Bowser's voice is unique and it adds a hell of a lot more character to him than those ghastly snarls, growls, and roars he does in Smash with SFX.

This is more than a valid criticism.

I can see your opinion, but I really don't mind how they sound. Bowser maybe could be a little less raspy with his voice, but it doesn't matter to me. This game is about the fighting, bringing series together, and whatnot. There are many things that we don't know that goes on with how the game is made. We don't know if Kenny was too much for the budget, or if they found that it was more cost effective for them to just keep those animalistic voices. Maybe Sakurai felt that having the character voicing would not fit the more darker style Bowser has in the SSB series. Maybe they were trying to get some other character's voice actors such as Robin and Chrom, and due to time management they didn't have time to really make new voicings for those characters. I wasn't arguing about the fact that there was voice actors that could have done it, or that Sakurai didn't do it, it's the fact that maybe there's a reason that made the decision be made, and one that probably benefited the company.

I dunno, but unless it affects the battling or the gameplay or the design, I don't think it's something that we should be making a fuss over. It really should just be taken with a grain of salt, and varies from person to person on if they like it or not. They work hard on the minor details, and they really try to make this game great, and while you can complain about it, I don't think it should be in this thread, but in a thread that is like "minor details that urk you", not the "overall thoughts".

 

[Ray Trace]

I can see your opinion, but I really don't mind how they sound. Bowser maybe could be a little less raspy with his voice, but it doesn't matter to me. This game is about the fighting, bringing series together, and whatnot. There are many things that we don't know that goes on with how the game is made. We don't know if Kenny was too much for the budget, or if they found that it was more cost effective for them to just keep those animalistic voices. Maybe Sakurai felt that having the character voicing would not fit the more darker style Bowser has in the SSB series. Maybe they were trying to get some other character's voice actors such as Robin and Chrom, and due to time management they didn't have time to really make new voicings for those characters. I wasn't arguing about the fact that there was voice actors that could have done it, or that Sakurai didn't do it, it's the fact that maybe there's a reason that made the decision be made, and one that probably benefited the company.

I dunno, but unless it affects the battling or the gameplay or the design, I don't think it's something that we should be making a fuss over. It really should just be taken with a grain of salt, and varies from person to person on if they like it or not. They work hard on the minor details, and they really try to make this game great, and while you can complain about it, I don't think it should be in this thread, but in a thread that is like "minor details that urk you", not the "overall thoughts".

If the game is solely about bringing the series together and fighting, then they got that probably got that extremely minor and inconsequential detail wrong: the dang accuracy of the said series being portrayed in Smash Bros. (this statement is sarcastic by the way). Having an incorrect voice for a character is EXACTLY like having an incorrect design for a character. Would you have batted an eyelid if Mario looked totally different from his base appearance in his games? Perhaps so, so why isn't it a valid complaint to criticize the voice of how a character from another series is portrayed in a game that is supposed to portray characters at their original form?

Incorrect sounds TOTALLY affect the design of the game. Have you heard of a term called "sound design"? It what helps brings satisfaction to gamers who plays the games, which is a good feeling to gamers and why many good games also have a great, satisfactory sound design. It's just as essential to the game as graphics, if you please both and deliver great gameplay, you get an excellent game. Mess it up and it becomes ----ing jarring, which is exactly what the Smash Bros. games are great at doing: ---ing up representation for the Mario series at a consistent basis.

And it's not an excuse if they couldn't get Tom Kenny or something: they could easily recycle voice clips from games such as Mario Kart Wii if they are absolutely that low of a budget for voice acting sounds.

 

[Baby Mario Bloops]

BLOF, I don't think that comparing a sprite error is a good comparison to a voicing of a character.

Link has never looked like he does in this version of Smash in his games (he's based off of TP Link, but with a much vivid coloring a some minor changes). It's not like they have a bad sprite that is out of place or anything like that. The decision for the voice acting was not a right or wrong decision, but a preference that Sakurai and the rest of the development team decided upon. They made that decision to go with that voice acting. It's not like what they did was wrong. If you feel like it's terrible, then fine, but I personally don't think it's that big a deal. It's such a first world problem out of all the things in this game.

I mean, I'm sure that you would find it very unreasonable to not get a game just because a couple characters out of a whole bucket of characters had voice acting that you did not agree with. Maybe people that are super hardcore about the franchises of Nintendo, but I would think that the imbalance of character representation or the overly-gimmicky stages would be more reason to not get a game than the voice acting. I'm not saying that you're not going to get the game or that people are making this out like it's deal or no deal for getting the game, but I feel like you're making it out like there was only 1 right answer and only 1 wrong answer and they picked the wrong answer.

 

[DaKid]

Just because they're based on animals doesn't mean they should sound like an real life animal or do. Because they don't. Koopas don't sound like turtles, DEDEDE doesn't sound like a real penguin, DK and Diddy don't sound like a ferocious ape at the zoo (in DK's case) or monkey throwing *bleep* at viewers.

They have a very distinct and personality filled voice. They're not beastly animals. Bowser's voice is even more glaring because Bowser Jr. sounds like Bowser Jr.. Not some little mini Bowser. Kenny James has a lot of range with Bowser, and knowing he's not being used for a beyond stupid reason is depressing, and highly annoying. Bowser's voice is unique and it adds a hell of a lot more character to him than those ghastly snarls, growls, and roars he does in Smash with SFX.

This is more than a valid criticism.

I can see your opinion, but I really don't mind how they sound. Bowser maybe could be a little less raspy with his voice, but it doesn't matter to me. This game is about the fighting, bringing series together, and whatnot. There are many things that we don't know that goes on with how the game is made. We don't know if Kenny was too much for the budget, or if they found that it was more cost effective for them to just keep those animalistic voices. Maybe Sakurai felt that having the character voicing would not fit the more darker style Bowser has in the SSB series. Maybe they were trying to get some other character's voice actors such as Robin and Chrom, and due to time management they didn't have time to really make new voicings for those characters. I wasn't arguing about the fact that there was voice actors that could have done it, or that Sakurai didn't do it, it's the fact that maybe there's a reason that made the decision be made, and one that probably benefited the company.

I dunno, but unless it affects the battling or the gameplay or the design, I don't think it's something that we should be making a fuss over. It really should just be taken with a grain of salt, and varies from person to person on if they like it or not. They work hard on the minor details, and they really try to make this game great, and while you can complain about it, I don't think it should be in this thread, but in a thread that is like "minor details that urk you", not the "overall thoughts".

What the *bleep*? They couldn't afford Kenny James? Are you kidding me? I find that scenario to be completely impossible. If you can afford Mario's VA you can afford Bowser's. Your defense for this is literally just pulling extremely unlikely situations out the wood works. Babyluigi pretty much wrapped up all that "fighting game, doesn't matter" stuff you're talking about.

Bowser's voice not fit the "darker" tone of Smash? That point is null but I'll entertain it. For one, this version of Smash has lightened up considerably, Bowser even got a rehaul to make him more like he is in his games, so now that "darker" excuse REALLY makes no sense. Also, have you heard Kenny James' range with Bowser? He can sound quite terrifying and ferocious. See SMG and SMG2.