Unpopular opinions about the Mario series

If they wanted a feminist Mario character, they should've gone with Captain Syrup. She's the leader of her own crew of pirates, she personally fights Wario numerous times with bombs and genies and robots, and the one time she needs help (WL:SI), she still manages to manipulate the situation so that she gets the treasure and Wario gets nothing. Yeah, she's sexy - but not as overt as designs from other series (Risky, the pirate from Shantae comes to mind); and true, she flirts with Wario, but she's doing it for her own amusement, not because as the token girl, she must be the love interest and/or eye candy by default: there ain't no love there, just colourful rivalry.
 
Walkazo said:
If they wanted a feminist Mario character, they should've gone with Captain Syrup. She's the leader of her own crew of pirates, she personally fights Wario numerous times with bombs and genies and robots, and the one time she needs help (WL:SI), she still manages to manipulate the situation so that she gets the treasure and Wario gets nothing. Yeah, she's sexy - but not as overt as designs from other series (Risky, the pirate from Shantae comes to mind); and true, she flirts with Wario, but she's doing it for her own amusement, not because as the token girl, she must be the love interest and/or eye candy by default: there ain't no love there, just colourful rivalry.
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Didn't know that character existed because I rarely play or know about the Wario games but sounds alive instead of being the living “kidnap–me–sign”.

I am thinking for an unpopular opinion right now....
 
They probably didn't put Captain Syrup because she's primarily a villain.
 
Mcmadness said:
They probably didn't put Captain Syrup because she's primarily a villain.
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So? Villains are awesome, and evilness aside, they often have way better personalities and are stronger than their goodie goodie counterparts. Should little girls look up to the pretty princess who gets kidnapped every other week and needs to sit around like a useless, weepy lump until her man comes and gets her, or should they be like the pirate wench who leads the boys and takes initiative to get what she wants? I'd be the pirate every time.
 
And when their arrested for piracy or dying of scurvy they'll wish they hadn't gone that route.
 
Walkazo said:
If they wanted a feminist Mario character, they should've gone with Captain Syrup. She's the leader of her own crew of pirates, she personally fights Wario numerous times with bombs and genies and robots, and the one time she needs help (WL:SI), she still manages to manipulate the situation so that she gets the treasure and Wario gets nothing. Yeah, she's sexy - but not as overt as designs from other series (Risky, the pirate from Shantae comes to mind); and true, she flirts with Wario, but she's doing it for her own amusement, not because as the token girl, she must be the love interest and/or eye candy by default: there ain't no love there, just colourful rivalry.
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I totally agree with this. Captain Syrup is awesome.
 
I haven't seen Eggman display any of that barring a character description of him.
 
I don't hate Captain Syrup but lets look at her in detail. First game she appeared in you don't fight her, she summons her genie and when he loses she throws a temper tantrum and runs away. 2nd game she uses a machine rather than taking on Wario directly. Finally we have wario land shake it where she is given an actual personality and what is it? The stereotypical flirty thief character type which is almost as old as being a kidnapped damsel. On top of that she never actually does anything herself beyond the opening cutscene. Say what you want about Peach but usually whenever she actually did something she was on the ''frontline'' so to speak.


Honestly looking at it now I'm not surprised they didn't choose Captain Syrup, she's a terrible role model.
 
It said that in one of his bios once but it's never actually come up in games.
 
Mcmadness said:
First game she appeared in you don't fight her, she summons her genie and when he loses she throws a temper tantrum and runs away.
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This argument is a bit like your "yeah kidnapped guys shows signs of weakness so what" when I can make the same argument here

Mcmadness said:
2nd game she uses a machine rather than taking on Wario directly.
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I fail to see how that's a point against her. From what I have read on the wiki, she controls a robot. It's a bit like calling out Samus for wearing a suit or whatever woman to use machinery or technology to advance their fights for them. All in all, she's still controlling it and technically she's still in power and trying to fight Wario even through indirect means.

Mcmadness said:
Finally we have wario land shake it where she is given an actual personality and what is it? The stereotypical flirty thief character type which is almost as old as being a kidnapped damsel. On top of that she never actually does anything herself beyond the opening cutscene. Say what you want about Peach but usually whenever she actually did something she was on the ''frontline'' so to speak.
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I'd rather have a stereotypical flirty thief character to display a female role model than the damsel in distress one. At least that one is more empowering and less prone to feebleness and wekaness as exhibited by damsel-in-distresses.

You don't necessarily need to be on the frontline to be considered a good role model. The way I view Captain Syrup, being lazy is part of her personality and I would rather have a lazy female who is malicious and would make other people do her own dirty work rather than whatever Peach does in most Mario games.

Mcmadness said:
Honestly looking at it now I'm not surprised they didn't choose Captain Syrup, she's a terrible role model.
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Still better than Peach

And besides, the original argument wasn't whether it's a good role model or not or rather an image that portrays females that are HUMANS rather than objects.
 
My argument wasn't ''so what'' my argument was that a person getting kidnapped is not by itself a negative thing. My point about the machine was to emphasise her cowardly nature, which is a negative trait and the thing about her being a thief is that she doesn't do anything empowering. She finds out about the treasure, sends it off to wario and then takes it when he's done all the work. That's not empowering, that's despicable.


Which is all appropriate as she's the villain. She is spineless, schleezy, and avoids doing anything herself. Makes her a good foil for Wario but as a role model? God no.
 
Mcmadness said:
My argument wasn't ''so what'' my argument was that a person getting kidnapped is not by itself a negative thing.
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the argument never was that the plot device of someone being kidnapped, taken in isolation, is in and of itself a bad thing. the argument is about patterns that exist in our culture across many different works of fiction. the fact is that when a fictional character gets kidnapped and needs to be rescued by another character, a female kidnappee and a male rescuer is overwhelmingly more common than any other configuration
 
And my point to that is that the amount it happens isn't a big deal, it's about the context in which that trope occurs and what happens within it is what defines it as a negative trait.
 
Mcmadness said:
Which is all appropriate as she's the villain. She is spineless, schleezy, and avoids doing anything herself. Makes her a good foil for Wario but as a role model? God no.
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i think this argument steems from a simple misunderstanding. blof's and walkazo's point isn't that syrup isn't "admirable" or a "role model" in that the character is admirable in a moral sense (of course, she's a villain in a plotless Jumping Dudes game), but rather that syrup is a Good Female Character because her taking ass and kicking names is completely accidental to her ownership of a vagina.

anyway, on this line of subject, the warioware ladies are Pretty Good too *shift eyes back and forth conspicuously*
 
Yes that's correct because I feel the context in how it's used is more important than the fact that it happened.
 
I don't see the context of Peach's getting kidnapped justifying the hapless woman damsel-in-distress trope that is much too common.
 
Mario Party X said:
I don't see the context of Peach's getting kidnapped justifying the hapless woman damsel-in-distress trope that is much too common.
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yeah im not fond of it either, especially when peach is shown to be a very good and competent character in spin-offs.
 
I find it funny how she is a great fighter in Smash Bros who can definitely hold her own but she ends up getting kidnapped all the time in the core series.
 
Mewtwo said:
I find it funny how she is a great fighter in Smash Bros who can definitely hold her own but she ends up getting kidnapped all the time in the core series.
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Even within Smash Bros., I see Peach to be pretty ditzy (which is the reason I'm not fond of the character as a whole).

The cookie-cutter plot in the core series is another reason, albeit somewhat minor, I don't enjoy it.
 
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